New bottom paint thread

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Rich Andrews
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New bottom paint thread

Post by Rich Andrews »

Ill try to show some things Ive moslty done myself with the help of some contacts in the labs I've worked with. It's been over 5 yrs since I started this and have from time to time kept it alive.

What I do know is we did some real testing and tried to kill this stuff.

1 was on a fiberglass shell we dragged around with weights that represented a load on pavement, trees branches,sawgrass, rocks, anywhere we could and it held up.

On Aluminum we had some challenges originally but I do think that has been resolved. it stuck well but the formula wasnt slick enuff for my liking so more hardner needed to be added. THis can be sprayed and the thickness controlled relatively easily. You wouldnt need 3/8 or 1/4 in for sure to replace poly and how it performs.

This stuff could literally replace polymer and you wouldnt even have a need to fill the holes nothing....patching it up if you somehow damaged it would be simple. Getting it completely off might be a challenge!

I wont go into specifics on the detailed ingredients because I think a business could be made from this since it has numerous applications.

I would indeed be open for a business collaboration if someone had the proper funding.

The sample pics I posted have been in the sun for over 2 yrs now. One pic will show the thinkness of the metal and coating and the other has been hit with a claw side of a hammer numerous times and wire brushed and not gently I can assure you that.

This was a failed military project I got involved with so I cant take all the credit but did have all the input for an airboat application. Ill put a video or 2 together beat this stuff up aagin and let people see how it responds.

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Rich Andrews
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Re: New bottom paint thread

Post by Rich Andrews »

guess i messed the pic up? maybe a site issue?
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Rich Andrews
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Re: New bottom paint thread

Post by Rich Andrews »

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Rich Andrews
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Re: New bottom paint thread

Post by Rich Andrews »

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Rich Andrews
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Re: New bottom paint thread

Post by Rich Andrews »

ill get a better surface pic but you can see a hammer face that was hit multiple times as well as the claw end

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Rich Andrews
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Re: New bottom paint thread

Post by Rich Andrews »

Here's a video I just did on some impacts no filter LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YMi_Wos4HU

Here's the follow up on the tear created

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K3fOaSiJe4
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Rich Andrews
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Re: New bottom paint thread

Post by Rich Andrews »

So here's the chunk I was able to pry out..it was sprayed .090 thick BTW

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Re: New bottom paint thread

Post by Rich Andrews »

Final video tearing out the chunk and trying to start a new run of pealing it off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUbvzZZCrIo
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dave1971
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Re: New bottom paint thread

Post by dave1971 »

Where can you buy it?

Seven3
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Re: New bottom paint thread

Post by Seven3 »

Very interesting Rich.

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Andy
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Re: New bottom paint thread

Post by Andy »

We run glass hulls on the Nature Coast, we've been using different bottom paints for protection. I would be interested in some info on amounts and price if you get it up and going,, Good Luck

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OneBFC
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Re: New bottom paint thread

Post by OneBFC »

Any chance you know the coefficient of Static and Dynamic friction? Dynamic is more interesting.

Also, thermal expansion numbers as well as abrasion would give us all the info needed to know if it stands a good chance of replacing UHMW.

Lastly, peel strength would probably be mandatory given the horror show that can happen with a bottom material coming off while underway.

I expect some / all of this info isn't known yet so it's totally OK at this point to say that.

But, I think you will need that info and a lot more before you can move forward with production / capital investment.

Hope it works out!
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boatair
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Re: New bottom paint thread

Post by boatair »

Have you tested it on aluminum? Aluminum that flexes?

Rich Andrews
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Re: New bottom paint thread

Post by Rich Andrews »

It was tested on fiberglass which had flex but flexing is not the main issue here.

Adhesion( to aluminum),and slickness are my 2 main concerns.Fiberglass is ez

When I stopped working on it, we pretty much figured out the adhesion part,and did it with a new mixture that was slicker.

For guys who run up to the hill and back it would be fine, for guys who hunt all day in the woods not so good IMO. If a cheater was added man this stuff become butter slick!

For all around protection you cant beat it, fixing a gash no problem, peel off your old poly dont even worry about filling the holes.....leave some screws sticking out and you can bond to them...its a game changer really.

You can take an old fiberglass hull spray it inside and out and be done with it until you wear a motor out.

I'd have to test 5-6-7 series aluminum only did 7 and see if anything changes, I'd expect the softer metals are easier to work with actually so Im glad we did the hardest first.

If someone knows anyone with some R&D money burning a hole in their pocket hit me up!
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Seven3
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Re: New bottom paint thread

Post by Seven3 »

Very interesting Rich. Certainly appears stronger than any poly or slick bottom. I have only owned two boats with poly, but I did make an observation on one of those poly boats that I completely stripped down and rebuilt. It was a 12’ riveted hull, most people believed it to be a Cloninger. It was a retired game warden boat that I bought off Govdeals. The poly was beat bad, big gouges and slices from rocks, I assume. I was expecting the bottom metal of the boat to be beat pretty bad once I pulled the poly off. To my surprise, the aluminum was completely flat, in great shape. I’m no engineer, but I believe that the poly dissipated the energy when the boat hit the rocks. I’m assuming the poly was able to do that because it was a soft material that “gave” into the rock, instead of bending the metal, almost like suspension. I’m curious if a harder material would negate that benefit? Thoughts?

SWAMPHUNTER45
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Re: New bottom paint thread

Post by SWAMPHUNTER45 »

I liken Poly to soft body armor in that it prevents an initial penetration and then spreads the force over a wider surface area than just the initial contact point.

Was the military project for an anti-spalding compound?

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Re: New bottom paint thread

Post by Rich Andrews »

Def a good analysis seven3 a true UHMW will protect a bottom from IMPACT which will keep the dents down. I got my hands on some blue stuff which I'm pretty sure was a blue iron polymer which actually was an acetol copolymer which will outlast traditional UHMW from abrasion like scratches on the poly but has less ability to withstand impacts such as the UHMW

For guys who hit stuff UHMW is the way to go in todays world, guys who just occasionally run sand or stay on the trails the blue would last longer appearance wise but prob not keep your bottom as flat if you hit something hard.

When we apply UHMW hot we stress the material by the thermal expansion then bolt it on...not always so good but is functional for what we do. The mat'l was never intended to be used like that. But if you do it cold you get thermal expansion which does not recover well and then you get bubbles on your bottom. You ever see old poly that was put on right will crack at all the rivets and thats why.

Now hit something hard on an old thurman with 7 stringers proper support bulkheads etc with poly and then hit the same thing on a lesser built hull apples to apples and you'll either bend the bulkhead or something else wherever the weaker point is near the impact. The poly doesnt absorb much of anything it deflects the energy.

Ever see an old rock boat bottom from the S glades, those guys had to go to Stainless Steel sheets because the cap rock would cut the living shit out of any poly but the trade off was a beat to shit hull but they didnt care.

I hunted with Dusty once RIP and we hit something so hard in Gardners that I got out of the boat to inspect it before we went back to the water. Al David said hes never seen one of his bulkhead bars bend like this one did. Any other boat and we weren't getting back in that day.I bet Yobee knows what im talking about!!

Imagine pulling up to a shop, dropping your boat on the ground, flip it upwards, hit it with some sand blast media, clean it, spray it and be back home that night or sliding in the morning. Or buy a brand new hull and never need to drill holes in it which makes us all sick to see. Chisel the old stuff off with reckless abandon then spray this stuff over it and be done. I've skipped a few steps but that would be pretty cool.
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Prototype
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Re: New bottom paint thread

Post by Prototype »

I think I've read the entire post but not one example of real time use, especially soliciting for funding? If it's that great, the major vendors should be knocking on your door vs peding the home market on here! Another poly butter but harder? Maybe- maybe not?
Wrong market to sell something as great as it is presented without real life samples of proof. Granted I don't run over claw hammers to often in a single hit more than once but deflection is a very delicate word from fuel bowls to bombers.
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Re: New bottom paint thread

Post by Seven3 »

I haven’t met Rich yet, but we’ve talked a few times and he seems like a good guy. I don’t think that was his intention with this thread at all. All great innovations start somewhere.

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Scotty1
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Re: New bottom paint thread

Post by Scotty1 »

:rebel: I don't believe I have ever heard Prototype say one nice comment ever on this forum. :rebel: :dontknow:

Rich Andrews
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Re: New bottom paint thread

Post by Rich Andrews »

I think he was the guy that said gasoline didnt foam either?
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FISHSTICKER
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Re: New bottom paint thread

Post by FISHSTICKER »

I say get it to stick to UHMW and you can retire. A thin hard slick coat on your Polly would be a hit.

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Re: New bottom paint thread

Post by FISHSTICKER »

I say get it to stick to UHMW and you can retire. A thin hard slick coat on your Polly would be a hit.

Of course thermal expansion difference may kill it even if you solved the adhesion issue.

Rich Andrews
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Re: New bottom paint thread

Post by Rich Andrews »

I hear ya..
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Lwells
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Re: New bottom paint thread

Post by Lwells »

I have a 16 ft. hamant aluminum boat that I have been checking for two years trying to find something I would be comfortable with putting on the bottom without going to poly so keep us informed about this stuff.

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