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My new build for the Ford 408

hdsadey

Well-known member
Just so happens that when I built the rigging the mounting in the stringers, the bolts are 12" on center. So if I was to get a gearbox, I can move the rigging forward to accommodate the setup. Minimal fab would be required.
 

SWAMPHUNTER45

Well-known member
Been there / done that and love the results.

BluBayou and I built my rigging for the DD 514 Caddy.

It ran dry but not as good as I had hoped for even with a power adder. He knew I was looking for more and had acquired a used gear drive on the cheap. Everyone from Mr. Branch, TerryF, Dagwood to OneEye offered up advice and in the end things fell in place to go to a gear drive.

While I was away on family business Blu who is like a brother from another mother de-rigged my boat and cut my rigging in half. He then re-fabricated it to a gear drive set up. My rigging base was square tube so he sleeved it internally and then welded it back at the base and put the tabs to cover any weld seam.

I would think if you can get a good welder and put enough thought into the design you may be able to do the same.

Trust me you will really be happy with the end result.

I know everyone has a budget and some are bigger than others but having a boat that performs well and making yourself happy is priceless.

Gear drive that bitch !
 

hdsadey

Well-known member
Well since I bent and welded all the rigging myself, I guess moving it forward a foot to accommodate the box is no big deal LOL. Would have to reengineer the front and rear mounts to drop the engine so to keep the center of the prop where it is. Input shaft to output shaft is what? 10 inches?
 

JLP3314

Well-known member
A sharp-yet simple (compared to many) boat/running a Ford to boot.
Congrats on keeping the blue oval alive.
 

Heavy

Active member
Congrats on a successful day. A good day on the water makes you realize why we go through all the BS to build and rig these things. That is a great looking boat. :thumbleft:
 

One Eyed Gator

Well-known member
Nice looking ride. You will find the gearbox to be a wonderful thing.

Yep been there on the DD thing.

Ran a Caddy for 10years. Got a 2:1 precision for next to nothing got it set-up of my caddy. Then built a boat for a buddy with a 5.3 out of a truck. He wanted a lighter motor and found his a l33 5.3. He gave me the truck 5.3 ran it with the 2:1 Then got a deal on a low hour 2.68 stinger. Found a deal on a 6.0 added a ASA cam some 706 heads (for higher compression) put the 2.00 valves in it. With low hours on the stinger had bearing issues. bought a 2.55:1 oxbox. Currently the motor is carbed with a MSD box, but I have come across a Holley HP terminator (not terminator X) have the TBSS intake Holley TB and tbss injectors. Almost done with fishing this season and will switch over shortly to EFI

Finally boat does everything I need it to plus.

But found a deal on a .030 6.0 so building a 370 ls.

Never seems to stop LOL

But then again I love to tinker on different projects.
 

hdsadey

Well-known member
That might just be an option sir. I sold the 4 barrel I had before and quite certain I will need another one.
 

hdsadey

Well-known member
I did. Been having trouble getting it to run correctly. Issues with the injection system flooding the engine. Ordered an O2 sensor. When I did get it to run correctly it had no problem running dry.
 

JLP3314

Well-known member
I hear so many folks running fuel injection with possible programming issues or other issues, yet it's still gonna be the engine platform for my next build.
Pump gas will be a necessity, or I won't be able to afford to run the boat.
Isnt' there a way we can read the ohm values of the O2 sensor with a voltmeter for testing, (both hot and cold engine)?
 

hdsadey

Well-known member
So I didn't have a problem until I bolted the gearbox on and reconfigured the rigging to fit. Damn thing thinks it's running lean and what I can only assume is it's flooding the engine with fuel trying to correct what information the O2 sensor is relaying. Now I removed the 2 barrel and installed a 4 barrel thinking that it was an issue of not enough CFMs. Couldn't barely get it to turn up over 4000. Same thing is happening with 4 barrels so it wasn't a CFM problem. Thought maybe it was a HP capability issue. 2 barrel is rated at 400. Motor makes 425 at 4850. Thought it was close enough initially. 4 barrel is rated for 600. I've increased volume to the pump. Removed the fuel pump power source from the injection unit internal fuel pump relay and hooked it up direct to battery using an external relay triggered by the internal relay. Still no joy. Changed O2 sensors to rule out faulty sensor. Nope not it. Now from my experience with these FiTech injection systems on vehicles they are super sensitive to outside issues, especially exhaust leaks. That said when I was fabricating the new rigging I was hanging the engine and gearbox from the headers with nylon slings. Could I have damaged the header gaskets allowing it to suck fresh air at the head sealing at higher rpms and feeding the O2 sensor with false readings? This is my next step. I have some dead soft aluminum header gaskets to replace the original felpro standard exhaust gaskets. I took it out Labor day and the damn boat wouldn't get out of it's own way! 2 miles and turned around, thought I was gonna sink it a couple of times. The following sea was coming over the transom and the blade was bailing water. I didn't have enough power to throttle up when it was happening. Talk about STRESSFUL. No shallow marsh around here test. Peace River is up right now. Until I figure this it's gonna stay on the trailer. Aggravating MFer!!!!!
 

hdsadey

Well-known member
Pitched just under 2. Can't tell what the plugs look like when it's happening because when it idles back down they get a correct color on them. I'm getting AFR readings spiking up to 20 on the handheld monitor. I was able to get it to run correctly once and ran it across 5 acres of horse pasture. I would post a pic how I was slinging the engine at time of build but I can't seem to get them to upload 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 It feels like it's gagging on fuel because the injection thinks it's lean and the injectors are running wide open
 

keys2pines

Well-known member
Pitched just under 2. Can't tell what the plugs look like when it's happening because when it idles back down they get a correct color on them. I'm getting AFR readings spiking up to 20 on the handheld monitor. I was able to get it to run correctly once and ran it across 5 acres of horse pasture. I would post a pic how I was slinging the engine at time of build but I can't seem to get them to upload 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 It feels like it's gagging on fuel because the injection thinks it's lean and the injectors are running wide open
Have you made any logs? Watch the rpm the system is seeing, when that tach wire gets noise it will throw the rpm to 20,000 and flood the engine.
 

JLP3314

Well-known member
So I didn't have a problem until I bolted the gearbox on and reconfigured the rigging to fit. Damn thing thinks it's running lean and what I can only assume is it's flooding the engine with fuel trying to correct what information the O2 sensor is relaying. Now I removed the 2 barrel and installed a 4 barrel thinking that it was an issue of not enough CFMs. Couldn't barely get it to turn up over 4000. Same thing is happening with 4 barrels so it wasn't a CFM problem. Thought maybe it was a HP capability issue. 2 barrel is rated at 400. Motor makes 425 at 4850. Thought it was close enough initially. 4 barrel is rated for 600. I've increased volume to the pump. Removed the fuel pump power source from the injection unit internal fuel pump relay and hooked it up direct to battery using an external relay triggered by the internal relay. Still no joy. Changed O2 sensors to rule out faulty sensor. Nope not it. Now from my experience with these FiTech injection systems on vehicles they are super sensitive to outside issues, especially exhaust leaks. That said when I was fabricating the new rigging I was hanging the engine and gearbox from the headers with nylon slings. Could I have damaged the header gaskets allowing it to suck fresh air at the head sealing at higher rpms and feeding the O2 sensor with false readings? This is my next step. I have some dead soft aluminum header gaskets to replace the original felpro standard exhaust gaskets. I took it out Labor day and the damn boat wouldn't get out of it's own way! 2 miles and turned around, thought I was gonna sink it a couple of times. The following sea was coming over the transom and the blade was bailing water. I didn't have enough power to throttle up when it was happening. Talk about STRESSFUL. No shallow marsh around here test. Peace River is up right now. Until I figure this it's gonna stay on the trailer. Aggravating MFer!!!!!
I hope this finds you made progress on it brother, as we all know what the Peace River looked like this week.
Stay safe, I'm sure you'll nail it soon! I have much to learn here is why I'm following your build, (fuel injection wise) but my 35+ yr HVAC career def agrees with the external relay (versus the cheap tiny OEM ones) and "dedicated" wiring.
 

hdsadey

Well-known member
Well I've come to the conclusion that it's the fuel pump! It's a FiTech pump a.k.a. Chinesium crap. It's got to be heating up and dropping pressure causing an actual lean condition. How I came to this conclusion is that as soon as it starts up it'll run correctly provided you don't let it run too long before trying to wide open throttle it. I wasn't seeing it because I like to let the engine oil warm up to operating temp or close to before the abuse commences. As it warms the pump has got to be getting hot and dropping volume and pressure. The reason I figured this out finally was out of necessity. Monday night before the cane I was repositioning the 2 boats on the property in preparation to avoid the large pine trees from potentially crushing them. My Silverado is 2wd and the ground was already water logged from all the rain previously. First boat was difficult but moved, my boat I took a different line and stuck the truck. Tried a few things but ultimately put the girlfriend in the truck and I hopped on the boat. As soon as it started I floored that pig and low and behold it spun up to 5800 and held. I was able to push the truck to more solid ground. That's when I realized it has got to be the pump.

FiTech has an internal relay that normally powers the pump. I have an external relay that supplies power directly from the battery and uses the ecu pump power wire to trigger that relay. This insures the pump is getting full 12 volts. These units have issues with the internal relay heating up and not handling the load. I'm currently contemplating removing the Bosch regulator in the throttle body and running a bypass regulator basically using the unit only to administer fuel not regulate. Still thinking that one out.


BIG THANKS TO WHOEVER POSTED ABOUT TYING UP THE RUDDERS. We had at least 5 hours full bore of that bastard and no damage to either boat especially the rudders. My cousin 3 streets over not so lucky with his rudders, one is now L-shaped because they weren't secured! Valuable lesson!!!!!!
 
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