• If you log in, the ads disappear in the forum and gallery. If you need help logging in or getting registered, send request to: webmaster@southernairboat.com

Adding Ls/gear reduction to a dd rigging

Do this exercise at home. It doesn't take much to open the relief valve. That one friggin spring is what pushes all your coolant from the pump outlet to pump inlet, regardless of what the pump flow capacity is. It ain't hard to open.

If that spring fails, the cooling system will recirculate hot coolant back into the engine and things will overheat.

Cooling Relief #1.jpg

Cooling Relief #2.jpg
 
Last edited:
Do this exercise at home. It doesn't take much to open the relief valve. That one friggin spring is what pushes all your coolant from the pump outlet to pump inlet, regardless of what the pump flow capacity is. It ain't hard to open.

If that spring fails, the cooling system will recirculate hot coolant back into the engine and things will overheat.

View attachment 98411

View attachment 98412
How about a radiator ? Any models we know I can go to oriely and get that will have inlet and outlet on the same side ? I've got a monster 4 core but it's inlet and outlet are on opposite sides. Kicking around the idea to save money and make some bends or buy another radiator and straight shot both main lines to same side.
 
How about a radiator ? Any models we know I can go to oriely and get that will have inlet and outlet on the same side ? I've got a monster 4 core but it's inlet and outlet are on opposite sides. Kicking around the idea to save money and make some bends or buy another radiator and straight shot both main lines to same side.
I don't have a specific recommendation for you, I haven't got to that stage in my build. If you got a good radiator I would use it and get on with things, just keep the concepts above in mind if you do find over heating issues.
 
Most of what I've been seeing in pictures looks like people are running exhaust tubing to fill the gaps between water pump and radiator. Been looking around online, I think finding and running steel braided setup would be pricey. I've seen some Amazon flex steel lines , I think it would look clean but the reviews are really good or really bad. Sounds like proper install plays a big roll. Would be nice to have solid lines instead of hose clamping radiator hoses to exhaust tubing. Guess we'll see if I'm any good with a bender, if that doesn't come out looking good may just have to try this flex hose. The setup they had for the small block looked like hydrolic hose, then we would have to bushing down to size with this radiator being more like 1 1/2" decisions decisions.
 

Attachments

  • 20231008_182815.jpg
    20231008_182815.jpg
    254.6 KB · Views: 6
  • Screenshot_20231027-165452_Amazon Shopping.jpg
    Screenshot_20231027-165452_Amazon Shopping.jpg
    60.9 KB · Views: 6
Most of what I've been seeing in pictures looks like people are running exhaust tubing to fill the gaps between water pump and radiator. Been looking around online, I think finding and running steel braided setup would be pricey. I've seen some Amazon flex steel lines , I think it would look clean but the reviews are really good or really bad. Sounds like proper install plays a big roll. Would be nice to have solid lines instead of hose clamping radiator hoses to exhaust tubing. Guess we'll see if I'm any good with a bender, if that doesn't come out looking good may just have to try this flex hose. The setup they had for the small block looked like hydrolic hose, then we would have to bushing down to size with this radiator being more like 1 1/2" decisions decisions.
The #1 thing you do not want to do is downsize the passage/hose/pipe, that is most definitely going to add back pressure. For my stuff I measure 1-3/8 pump to top of radiator and 1-1/2 on suction side to bottom.

On my Swamp buggy the engine sits a good distance from the radiator and I make the hoses with exactly what you say, exhaust pipe and hose clamps. Weld on a ridge for good grip and improved blow off prevention plus match up hoses from the rack at Advance auto. If you want it to look good purchase SST tubing with short lengths of rubber hose and clamps like your picture.

As for bending thin wall tubing, you need to fill it with sand to keep it from kinking and run it over a decent size radius (if you don't have a bender).

McMaster Carr is a great place to purchase short lengths of thin wall SST tubing. They stock in Atlanta and ground shipping is normally 1-2 days to Fla.

McMaster-Carr

One thing I notice on your setup is the looped hose between the two heater connections. You need to replace that with blanking plugs on each port. What you have plumbed in now is essentially a bypass of the relief valve that I covered above. So that hose is an open hole for hot engine coolant to flow back into pump suction, bypassing your radiator. Effectively defeating all of the goals here.

The thing to consider is your idle condition when engine speed and therefore pump flow is low. You want the engine to cool down at idle, but a big bypass hose makes that difficult. At high RPM that heater bypass loop is probably not an issue. The pump will flow plenty and it will normally open the relief valve to dump excess, the loop you have just keeps the relief from opening as much.

Keep that heater loop and you will come back in a year and say the engine heats up at idle but cools right down if you jump on a plane. The standard explanation will be because you added airflow to the radiator. Perhaps, but reycling hot coolant at idle sure does not help.
 
Last edited:
The #1 thing you do not want to do is downsize the passage/hose/pipe, that is most definitely going to add back pressure. For my stuff I measure 1-3/8 pump to top of radiator and 1-1/2 on suction side to bottom.

On my Swamp buggy the engine sits a good distance from the radiator and I make the hoses with exactly what you say, exhaust pipe and hose clamps. Weld on a ridge for good grip and improved blow off prevention plus match up hoses from the rack at Advance auto. If you want it to look good purchase SST tubing with short lengths of rubber hose and clamps like your picture.

As for bending thin wall tubing, you need to fill it with sand to keep it from kinking and run it over a decent size radius (if you don't have a bender).

McMaster Carr is a great place to purchase short lengths of thin wall SST tubing. They stock in Atlanta and ground shipping is normally 1-2 days to Fla.

McMaster-Carr

One thing I notice on your setup is the looped hose between the two heater connections. You need to replace that with blanking plugs on each port. What you have plumbed in now is essentially a bypass of the relief valve that I covered above. So that hose is an open hole for hot engine coolant to flow back into pump suction, bypassing your radiator. Effectively defeating all of the goals here.

The thing to consider is your idle condition when engine speed and therefore pump flow is low. You want the engine to cool down at idle, but a big bypass hose makes that difficult. At high RPM that heater bypass loop is probably not an issue. The pump will flow plenty and it will normally open the relief valve to dump excess, the loop you have just keeps the relief from opening as much.

Keep that heater loop and you will come back in a year and say the engine heats up at idle but cools right down if you jump on a plane. The standard explanation will be because you added airflow to the radiator. Perhaps, but reycling hot coolant at idle sure does not help.
Yes sir, that is what we were going to originally try to and run. I've ordered another expansion tank that we plan to unhook the loop and run them to tank and plumb steam port to it aswell. Am I screwing up going that route in your opinion? I'll check out McMaster. On tubing
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20231025-104740_Samsung Internet.jpg
    Screenshot_20231025-104740_Samsung Internet.jpg
    52.2 KB · Views: 4
They make a smooth wall water/exhaust hose like used on a typical inboard boat. work wells and you can make soft bends with it.

Do a search 1-1/4 rubber exhaust hose.

My system is the above and some custom bend SS tube by Hunter Custom Airboats
 
Yes sir, that is what we were going to originally try to and run. I've ordered another expansion tank that we plan to unhook the loop and run them to tank and plumb steam port to it aswell. Am I screwing up going that route in your opinion? I'll check out McMaster. On tubing
12x12,
You are on the right track for sure. Blank off the cool side return on the thermostat side of the water pump and run the hot engine side port (Heater hot supply) into the expansion tank with 1/2" or larger. As long as the return line to the top of the radiator does not have any air trap points from radiator to water pump and the radiator is below the engine I don't see a need for a direct line from the radiator to the expansion tank.
 
Last edited:
Got a good start on it this weekend. Fell short on rivets
 

Attachments

  • 30563535353576(1).jpeg
    30563535353576(1).jpeg
    161.7 KB · Views: 4
  • 30563535365327(1).jpeg
    30563535365327(1).jpeg
    154.2 KB · Views: 4
Couldn't quite get all of it to roll like I wanted to we spliced in a piece. All done !
 

Attachments

  • 20231113_230914.jpg
    20231113_230914.jpg
    159.4 KB · Views: 9
  • 20231113_193119.jpg
    20231113_193119.jpg
    127.9 KB · Views: 9
Little update. Didn't have the expansion tank quite figured out so I think I may redo some if it. I don't like the bulky lines everywhere. Turns out people are tying the 5/8 & 3/4 together from water pump with a tee and running a single 3/4 to the expansion tank. I had dug through forums and just now finding multiple pictures of how people run tank system when doing Ls swap. So coolant lines are about done. Suffering through some wiring issues at moment but close to start up.
 

Attachments

  • 20231205_095409.jpg
    20231205_095409.jpg
    246 KB · Views: 17
  • 20231205_133339.jpg
    20231205_133339.jpg
    255.2 KB · Views: 17
  • 20231204_232228.jpg
    20231204_232228.jpg
    250.3 KB · Views: 17
@12ftgso480
I just run a single line up from the line going to the radiator in line to the bottom of the expansion tank that is for expansion and filling. if the line is metal just put a bung on it and run a AN fitting and hose from that to the bottom of the tank.

you also want to connect the steam lines off the heads to the expansion tank. This gets the air out. This is very important

You do not need two lines from the pump going up. block them off. They make a plate for that. :)

and of course run a line from the cap over flow to a overflow tank......
 
@12ftgso480
I just run a single line up from the line going to the radiator in line to the bottom of the expansion tank that is for expansion and filling. if the line is metal just put a bung on it and run a AN fitting and hose from that to the bottom of the tank.

you also want to connect the steam lines off the heads to the expansion tank. This gets the air out. This is very important

You do not need two lines from the pump going up. block them off. They make a plate for that. :)

and of course run a line from the cap over flow to a overflow tank......
X2,
2 lines to the expansion tank as shown essentially defeats the check/relief valve portion of the thermostat and decreases the flow rate through the radiator.

Aeon says put it on the radiator side, I say connect to the hot side on the water pump. I imagine any works as long as there is only 1 connection.

Plug off one or more ports on that waterpump.

12x12,
You are on the right track for sure. Blank off the cool side return on the thermostat side of the water pump and run the hot engine side port (Heater hot supply) into the expansion tank with 1/2" or larger. As long as the return line to the top of the radiator does not have any air trap points from radiator to water pump and the radiator is below the engine I don't see a need for a direct line from the radiator to the expansion tank.
 
X2,
2 lines to the expansion tank as shown essentially defeats the check/relief valve portion of the thermostat and decreases the flow rate through the radiator.

Aeon says put it on the radiator side, I say connect to the hot side on the water pump. I imagine any works as long as there is only 1 connection.

Plug off one or more ports on that waterpump.
I guess I'm not understanding how it would decrease flow rate when any normal vehicle would have a heater core with 2 lined the same size here ? Am I think about it wrong ? I've been seeing more and more with one line but also don't get how it will defeat the relief valve either way ? I like the conversation let's keep it going
 
Will it ever work 😆 maybe I should just buy the holley
 

Attachments

  • 20231215_192259.jpg
    20231215_192259.jpg
    203.2 KB · Views: 10
  • 20231215_192306.jpg
    20231215_192306.jpg
    154.4 KB · Views: 10
  • 20231215_192321.jpg
    20231215_192321.jpg
    181.9 KB · Views: 10
I guess I'm not understanding how it would decrease flow rate when any normal vehicle would have a heater core with 2 lined the same size here ? Am I think about it wrong ? I've been seeing more and more with one line but also don't get how it will defeat the relief valve either way ? I like the conversation let's keep it going
You are correct, the heater core normally plugs into those two ports and does flow from the Hot return to radiator side of the relief valve (closest to engine) to the cold side water pump inlet (furthest port from engine). But that heater core is a restriction in the line that requires pressure to flow which is provided by the relief valve portion of the thermostat which keeps the hot side pressure higher than the pump inlet side. See my previous posts with a picture of the thermostat and relief valve.

With the dual lines that you have you have effectively created a short circuit around this relief, through the hoses and the expansion tank. It won't take all the flow but it will flow more through this circuit than what flows through the heater core, reducing the flow of coolant through the radiator and therefore reducing your cooling. This is not so much an issue under high RPM since the water pump flows way more than needed, but at idle you will lose a good portion of the cooling flow and my have issues with overheating at idle.

What Aeon suggests is probably the best solution as you will be able to fill the radiator etc. through the expansion tank. If you eliminate the hose on the cool side water pump inlet (port furthest from engine) it may also work, or it may create issues with filling the system since the thermostat will normally be closed when filling the system. My plans for vacuum fill should resolve in my case, but I have not yet tried it.

At a minimum, delete the hose from the outer port and plug that port off. If you add the Tee as Aeon recommends, then blank off both heater ports on the water pump.
 
On my 5.3 I put a rubber cap on the rear port to water pump and ran front to expansion tank and yes run the steam vents to the expansion tank as well. My engine temp doesn’t fluctuate more than 3 degrees while running all day once up to temp and that’s looking at the computer data not an analog gauge.

As for the mat sensor which is the intake air temp sensor that was referenced earlier remove the Evap purge solenoid out of the top of your intake right behind the throttle body and drip and tap the plastic to accept the proper threads for the intake air temp sensor and put a little Teflon tape on it when installing. As long as your not running boost that will hold the IAT in the intake. If you put boost to it apply epoxy to the threads when you install it.

Cary Eide made my coolant pipes

I attached top view of similar intake and you can see the purge valve directly behind the throttle body and if you use the Holley terminator your gonna have to add this sensor for it to get the fuel mixture correct. If you stay with the gm computer you can run the mass air flow sensor.
 

Attachments

  • 6E67D0A1-7994-48C4-9152-0EE699E726D0.jpeg
    6E67D0A1-7994-48C4-9152-0EE699E726D0.jpeg
    201.1 KB · Views: 4
Here is a picture of the aluminum coolant pipes he builds using stainless t bolt clamps and silicone connections
 

Attachments

  • 3106FB37-914B-4B3D-93A5-E45B19D2C578.png
    3106FB37-914B-4B3D-93A5-E45B19D2C578.png
    730.2 KB · Views: 6
Little update. Went ahead and went to dual captain chair while it's still cold. Fired motor and decided to go ahead and cam it. We're gonna give truck Norris a go.
 

Attachments

  • 20240105_172757.jpg
    20240105_172757.jpg
    230.3 KB · Views: 5
  • Screenshot_20240106-233638_Gallery.jpg
    Screenshot_20240106-233638_Gallery.jpg
    107.9 KB · Views: 5
Looking at the pictures it appears your running the truck spacing on the water pump and if so you better reinforce that alternator bracket a whole hell of a lot better I have the same low mount alt bracket running the truck water pump and I carry spare bolts for alt and tools to replace on the water due to vibration and flex created by that alt flexing on them 10mmx140 bolts and grade 5 has lasted the longest. I have tried grade 8 and the 12s that came with the bracket kit. Take an old 17 mil chrome socket and polish the outside so it slides smoothly inside the recess in the bracket so you can torque the bolts properly because gonna be hard to find the shoulder bolts the brackets made for in grade 5
 
Back
Top