No more need for avgas

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rac1boat
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No more need for avgas

Postby rac1boat » Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:15 pm

Embry Riddle just completed a teardown test on a twin engine that was flown from coast to coast by student pilots using Recreational fuel in one engine and av gas in the other. It had 1932 hours on each! The engine on recreational fuel had 15 percent better fuel economy than the avgas engine with no performance, vaporization, or EGT issues. The teardown of the engines showed no signs of wear from one engine to the other but the mechanics recommend using 100LL once every 100 hours on exsisting engine valve guides and seats that have not been converted to the new valves an seats. EPA is gearing up for phaseout of 100LL by 2013 :bounce:

mwood7800
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Re: No more need for avgas

Postby mwood7800 » Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:27 pm

was that an AV motor?

greenhorn480
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Re: No more need for avgas

Postby greenhorn480 » Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:32 pm

That's total irrelevant BS because at 5,000 or more feet any fuel has enough octane because there is 30% less oxygen in the air. Do the same test at sea level in an airboat and the pump gas motor would be in a thousand pieces. As you altitude goes up your HP GOES DOWN AND SO DOES YOUR OCTANE NEEDS.

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MJD291
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Re: No more need for avgas

Postby MJD291 » Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:42 pm

I would love to hear more details on the study. What motors were used, what pistons comp. ratio, f.i. or carbed?
I LOVE THE SMELL OF AV GAS IN THE MORNING. IT SMELLS LIKE..... VICTORY

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JAMES
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Re: No more need for avgas

Postby JAMES » Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:47 pm

IF THIS IS BASIC THE SAME THING THEY HAVE BEEN TRYING FOR YRS
Marathon recreational fuel suited for aircraft
Posted by Kent Misegades · December 7, 2009 .Marathon Oil Co. is marketing a 90 octane unleaded non-ethanol gasoline as a recreational fuel for boats. We believe this fuel to be perfectly suited for use with 87 octane auto fuel STCs. In some locations it is one octane point higher, 91 octane. 91 octane is suitable for use with all auto fuel STCs.

90 or 91 octane may be available at the following bulk product terminals:

•Ft Lauderdale-Eisenhower
•Ft Lauderdale-Spangler
•River Rouge, Mich.
•Detroit, Mich.
•Romulus, Mich.
•Doraville, Ga.
•Powder Springs, Ga.
Pilots living near those areas should contact the terminals to find out where this “recreational fuel” is being distributed since not all Marathon stations are carrying it.

Be advised that not all gasoline service station pumps are labeled as to ethanol content. The ethanol lobby considered pump labeling to be “discriminatory” and lobbied successfully for changes to federal pump labeling laws. That’s why pumps are labeled as to ethanol content only if state law continues to require it.
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Olf Art
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Re: No more need for avgas

Postby Olf Art » Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:47 pm

That is total BS. It's at sea level that the gremlins show up. I wonder if Al Gore paid for this "test"?
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C1gator
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Re: No more need for avgas

Postby C1gator » Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:48 am

Olf Art wrote:That is total BS. It's at sea level that the gremlins show up. I wonder if Al Gore paid for this "test"?

:lol: He probably did......$orry bass tard.....Him and ole slick willy sure screwed us a good one......They taught the muslim well.....

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BANANA BOAT
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Re: No more need for avgas

Postby BANANA BOAT » Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:06 am

They fly planes on 87 octane in the 3rd world all the time.

rac1boat
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Re: No more need for avgas

Postby rac1boat » Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:15 am

No Bs Both of my sons attend Embry Riddle college in daytona beach! I am a pilot myself and have been using RV 91 octane for 8 years now. Just bought a new supercub this year. I used 100LL for the first 30 gallons then all RV after that. The test that were done was 2 stock IO-470s!

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Re: No more need for avgas

Postby rhodes » Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:41 pm

i am with greenhorn & olf. total propaganda. sea level is our problem w/mogas.

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Re: No more need for avgas

Postby hmgm123 » Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:43 pm

JAMES wrote:IF THIS IS BASIC THE SAME THING THEY HAVE BEEN TRYING FOR YRS
Marathon recreational fuel suited for aircraft
Posted by Kent Misegades · December 7, 2009 .Marathon Oil Co. is marketing a 90 octane unleaded non-ethanol gasoline as a recreational fuel for boats. We believe this fuel to be perfectly suited for use with 87 octane auto fuel STCs. In some locations it is one octane point higher, 91 octane. 91 octane is suitable for use with all auto fuel STCs.

90 or 91 octane may be available at the following bulk product terminals:

•Ft Lauderdale-Eisenhower
•Ft Lauderdale-Spangler
•River Rouge, Mich.
•Detroit, Mich.
•Romulus, Mich.
•Doraville, Ga.
•Powder Springs, Ga.
Pilots living near those areas should contact the terminals to find out where this “recreational fuel” is being distributed since not all Marathon stations are carrying it.

Be advised that not all gasoline service station pumps are labeled as to ethanol content. The ethanol lobby considered pump labeling to be “discriminatory” and lobbied successfully for changes to federal pump labeling laws. That’s why pumps are labeled as to ethanol content only if state law continues to require it.


ALL RIGHT WHO HIJACKED JAMES SCREEN NAME???!!

lorick
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Re: No more need for avgas

Postby lorick » Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:58 pm

100LL my 0470 run's 160 temp. 93 pump gas 190. BIG DEFERENCE!

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BANANA BOAT
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Re: No more need for avgas

Postby BANANA BOAT » Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:09 pm

Must time engine accordingly

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Waterthunder
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Re: No more need for avgas

Postby Waterthunder » Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:40 pm

The problem with gas in a A/C engine in a airboat is this. 1ST they make way more power in an airboat then they do in a plane because they run at sea level and run a 100% power often. The only time I would say to run pump gas in a A/C motor is when it's not making much power or you have a motor that the cylinder temps are lower then most other A/C motors. Such as less of a load or a lower compression engine or a lower HP model probaly why the lower HP and compression parallel valves tend to run cooler then the higher HP and compression angle valve motors do. Also your crazy if you run pump gas in a GSO motor!
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Re: No more need for avgas

Postby BLWH73 » Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:48 pm

thunder what about them saber blades did you do the test yet

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kmr0290
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Re: No more need for avgas

Postby kmr0290 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:07 am

been having an a/c powered air boat for 15 years and other members of my family even longer. the av gas only thing is bull$-t ,ive never even seen avgas. 93 works just fine.
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Ruagatr
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Re: No more need for avgas

Postby Ruagatr » Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:56 am

Maybe the 0290 in your signature explains it. I have personally seen the dieseling of a 300 angle valve when 93 is run in it...and perfect performance when avgas became available...Sea level 100 power is the big difference.

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Southern Style
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Re: No more need for avgas

Postby Southern Style » Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:11 am

hmgm............ :laughing3: :laughing3: :laughing3: :laughing3: :laughing3: :laughing3: :laughing3:

now THAT was hilarious !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Owned a Lycoming 260hp 0-540 and now a Continental 230hp 0-470-R :

Both of them would diesel BAD with 93 pump gas and run higher temps... Run AvGas and have not had an issue with the motor wanting to diesel at all.. Shuts down instantly, and temps are always lower ( running the same family, the same weight, the same river and trails, the same time of year )........................ Just my findings and my observations..........
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badge01
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Re: No more need for avgas

Postby badge01 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:34 am

run 93 octane in O-540. temp lil warm but doesnt deisel. I add a bottle of lucas octane at each fill up though. imagine puts me at 96 to 98 range. budgets....who needs em.
do it right or dont do it at all!!

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hmgm123
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Re: No more need for avgas

Postby hmgm123 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:40 am

badge01 wrote:run 93 octane in O-540. temp lil warm but doesnt deisel. I add a bottle of lucas octane at each fill up though. imagine puts me at 96 to 98 range. budgets....who needs em.


Let me guess straight valve. 8)

airboat470
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Re: No more need for avgas

Postby airboat470 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:12 am

Man. All i got is a 160. If i even talk about putting car gas in my boat it starts running like crap. It dont wanna shut off and i loose what feels like a lot of power. I have tried 93 and ethonol free gas. They both suck. Unfortuantly i have to keep buying $4 a gallon gas. OH well car gas stinks. Ill just keep the whole AIRboating thing going and buy AIRplane gas. :lol: :wink:
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Gary S
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Re: No more need for avgas

Postby Gary S » Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:23 am

I ran 93 pump gas in my 160 with no problems until they screwed it up with ethanol. After the ethanol my headers started to change colors. I started running pump gas so I wounldn't have to drive 20 miles out of my way to get it.

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R L Williams
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Re: No more need for avgas

Postby R L Williams » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:25 pm

Image

Found in http://www.inflightusa.com Nov 2010
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